Insignia VXR vs. BMW 335i

[Voodooking]

Hi there. Just wanted to see what people's opinions were on the advantages of both cars. I'm undecided on what to go for next. I've always had either a Vauxhall or BMW at different times in my driving career.

I'm aware of the fact that they are different cars designed for different markets, but as they are priced quite closely, I am torn between waiting for the Insignia, or getting a 335i M-Sport early next year.

What would you guys go for?

The issues as I can see it are that the Insignia will have 4x4, and I know from having driven a Saab Turbo X that this will be fantastic. However, the 335i will have the legendary BMW handling.

Also, the 335i can be tuned with a piggyback only to 420bhp / 410 lb/ft torque. This takes the 0-60 down to around 4.3 secs.

BMW also offer a decent auto box with really good paddle shift.

I'd be interested to hear anyone's constructive views on the best car to go for.

[Bainie]

I don `t think they are in the same league, so comparing them is pointless imo ...

[zletsgo]

You say priced similarly - are you sure?

[Voodooking]

Well the top spec Elite Insignia is approx £28k, so the VXR one will be at least £30k I would imagine.

You can get a 335i M-Sport for about £32k so there is not much difference really.

So by the token if people are saying that you can't compare them does that mean they would go for the bmw if price were the same?

[zletsgo]

Well the top spec Elite Insignia is approx £28k, so the VXR one will be at least £30k I would imagine.

You can get a 335i M-Sport for about £32k so there is not much difference really.

So by the token if people are saying that you can't compare them does that mean they would go for the bmw if price were the same?

You mean this one http://www.parkers.co.uk/cars/equipment/Detail.aspx?deriv=36520

List is £36k and that is before you go trigger happy on the options!

[MrLOL]

Well the top spec Elite Insignia is approx £28k, so the VXR one will be at least £30k I would imagine.

You can get a 335i M-Sport for about £32k so there is not much difference really.

So by the token if people are saying that you can't compare them does that mean they would go for the bmw if price were the same?

the VXR wont be 30k.

[Insignia VXR]

Nice cars to have to decide between! :)

The benchmark car that VX look to be targetting is the new Audi S4.
That has just been released with 333bhp and 439Nm stock.

Most press speculation to date talks about 'over 300bhp' to as much as 320-330bhp for the new VXR.
In order to get those figures and maintain reliability it probably means more changes to the current Vectra engine than ECU programming and that would govern how tuneable the new engine will be.

The BMW 3.0 twin turbo is a fantastic engine. Personally I would not be too comfortable with a piggyback tune on such a sophisticated engine and expensive car.
The more well known tuners offering standard ECU remaps and a warranty worth the paper seem to be quoting around 340-350 bhp.
Others are offering remaps to 380-390 bhp but the recommendation seems to be to upgrade at least the oil cooler if you want it to last.

Disregarding the price, as you are interested in tuning and know how good the haldex system is I would wait for the new VXR price and engine specs.
Good as the new 3's handling is, a 4 wheel drive system is always going to allow you to make the most of any tuning you do, especially a sophisticated system like the XWD 8)

[Voodooking]

No Zletsgo, I mean this one:

http://www.broadspeed.com/bmw/3-series-335i-m-sport-auto-4-door-22963.shtml

How much do you think the VXR will be then MrLOL? If the Elite is £28k then I can't see it being less than £30k, and a fair bit more wouldn't surprise me...

Thanks for your constructive comments BlackVXR. My thinking previously was that the XWD on the Insignia will really make it something special.

The tuner in question is Vishnu tuning from the States who has made his name tuning a variety of cars and has a very large following. The problem with ecu remap's is that they leave a trace that the ecu has been tampered with, and this voids the warranty.

The spectacular results that Vishnu have been producing really got me interested in the 335i. (I had been a VX die hard set on waiting for the Insignia VXR until then).

My other reasoning is that the BMW has twin turbo's and better fuel economy than the Vectra's. (I know the Saab was awful for mpg, so I would imagine the GM engine with 4wd in the Insignia will be pretty heavy on fuel.) The BMW does over 30 mpg.

I did think when I read the brochure that there were a lot of new features from Vauxhall, such as the fancy headlights and heated and cooled seats etc. These features coupled with the XWD and fancy suspension make an attractive proposition.

Another issue is that the BMW will probably have a higher quality feel to the interior/doors etc. and will probably hold it's value better, which may be important if I plan to keep the car 6 to 10 years.

[MrLOL]

How much do you think the VXR will be then MrLOL? If the Elite is £28k then I can't see it being less than £30k, and a fair bit more wouldn't surprise me...


theres a lot of people floating around on these forums that have inside knowledge

i vaguely recall one of those people saying it would be sub 30k last time we were talking about insignia VXR pricing.

I cant recall who posted it. I'll have a search and see if i can find it.

[brano_co]

wasnt reading all post here but i thing that will be me problem also in 1-2 year if go for BMW 335i or Insignia OPC - because here in OPEL i have nice discount already, true is it that BMW have lot of extra options witch you can not have in OPEL... than the final price will be completly somewhere diferent... btw BMW 335i is also 4x4 here...

[MrLOL]

cant find the post, seems 25k or 28k or 30k etc.. are all 2 short because they are 3 characters

needs 4 to work.

But theres a thread somewhere discussing insignia VXR pricing.

[Insignia VXR]

How much do you think the VXR will be then MrLOL? If the Elite is £28k then I can't see it being less than £30k, and a fair bit more wouldn't surprise me...

The problem with ecu remap's is that they leave a trace that the ecu has been tampered with, and this voids the warranty.

The spectacular results that Vishnu have been producing really got me interested in the 335i. (I had been a VX die hard set on waiting for the Insignia VXR until then).

Another issue is that the BMW will probably have a higher quality feel to the interior/doors etc. and will probably hold it's value better, which may be important if I plan to keep the car 6 to 10 years.

Think you have to look in pricing in terms of standard spec vs options....devil will be in the detail :)
The price of a BMW 335 or Audi S4 or indeed a VXR8 might mean the Insignia will still be good value.

Regarding ECU remaps I agree but for this kind of car I would prefer any tuning changes to be properly run through the ECU's safety parameters rather than a piggyback - there is a reason they came out first - they didnt have to fully understand and work with the ECU as you would have to to do a remap.

Anyone doing a professional tune should be able to warranty their engine work so you are still protected rather than try and mess the dealership around and try and deceive them. Playing roulette on a complicated, expensive new car warranty otherwise?

Quality - Having sat in the Insignia at the London Motorshow and pushed as many buttons as I could :p Vauxhall have really upped their game in the cabin.
You sit low, properly 'in' the car and the sweeping design is much more like a wrap around cockpit and very premium in feel - TBH possibly makes the new 3 interior seem a little tired?

Vauxhall have also announced that a twin-clutch system will be making an appearance in the Insignia at some point but no word on whether it will arrive in time for the VXR.

http://www.beyondthekm.com/images/2007/BMW-335i-coupe-interior.jpg


http://opelfan.com/im/2008/06/opel_insignia_interior.jpg

[Noose]

I’m not to keen on the BMW overall but I might still buy one… BMW is just a badge at the end of the day… but it will retain a better value and like u said the better handling.

I chose a VXR8 over a (1st choice) - BMW 335, (2nd) BMW 5 seires, wait for (3rd)EVO X or (4th) JAG XF.

Depends what you after from a car… BMW = snob to the point of gay, EVO X = child mindset, Jag XF = old gitt… but when I saw and tested the VXR8 I loved the low revs and high torque… stuff the creature comforts of the Germans, I like a hungry looking V8 beast with a some sophistication thrown in amongst the brawn… don‘t care if u say it‘s chavy. Audi = gay and c0ck!

If I am to choose BMW or Insignia… I go for Insignia for all the gadgets and technology but must have a good engine for tuning most of all. Price doesn’t come into it… it’s all about the overall product from both sides of the coin. Looking in do u see some d!ck looking out driving fast in which car? Stick on a pair of shades what do u look like if u saw yourself in That Car…

[Insignia VXR]

Autocar, XWD 4 wheel drive system reviewed in a Saab 9-3

"We drove a late XWD prototype on a circuit of gravel, water spray and extreme lane-change manoeuvres and there’s only one conclusion. The XWD works, and brilliantly.
You can see how much difference it makes by checking out our videos section, or clicking http://www.autocar.co.uk/VideosWallpapers/Videos.aspx?AR=226026&CT=V.
No matter how extreme the steering action in the simulated lane-chances, the XWD remained neutral and extremely stable. Nose-led lurching and weight transfer were virtually absent.
And with the tail drifting on gravel, the eLSD would tweak it back into line with uncanny accuracy.
On a section of conventional tarmac, the XWD behaved remarkably like a car with 50/50 weight distribution. It cornered hard and flat, gripped like a limpet and could easily deploy all its 280bhp and 295lb ft."

[Drunken Master]

335i all day long as in the long run it will be cheaper when it does't lose a fortune. Unlike the vauxhall!

[zletsgo]

335i all day long as in the long run it will be cheaper when it does't lose a fortune. Unlike the vauxhall!

My brother lost 17k on an M3 in 3yrs - depreciation is all relative;)

[Drunken Master]

The E36's were about 38k new so 17k loss over 3yrs means at 3yrs old the cars worth 66% of it's original value.

Which isn't too bad.

[Insignia VXR]

335i all day long as in the long run it will be cheaper when it does't lose a fortune. Unlike the vauxhall!

Not really, Fleet Car Magazine have already predicted Insignia residuals will be around 10% better than the old car because of it's styling and quality 8)

You would actually lose around £1200 more buying the BMW after 4 years.

http://www.whatcar.com/depreciation-index.aspx?MA=2&MV=25825&ED_ADD=55539&RT=0&ED=55695&ED2=0&ED3=0&ED4=0 (http://www.whatcar.com/depreciation-index.aspx?MA=2&MV=25825&ED_ADD=55539&RT=0&ED=55695&ED2=0&ED3=0&ED4=0)

http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m249/BLACK_VXR/chart95e6df96b04745d8ac5bc480138b58.gif

[zletsgo]

The E36's were about 38k new so 17k loss over 3yrs means at 3yrs old the cars worth 66% of it's original value.

Which isn't too bad.

But like I said all relative - still 17k regardless of the percentage (His car was 34k demo - think with spec it was 40k new)

Still better than the guy who bought a Mitsi GTO 3000 brand new for £50k and iirc he took a 17k hit in the 1st year :oops:

[Insignia VXR]

Ouch lol
Just showing BMWs aren't immune from credit crunch either :D

[Drunken Master]

Ouch lol
Just showing BMWs aren't immune from credit crunch either :D

Oh no, if the insurance wouldn't criple me i'd get a E46 M3 now. 53 plates with average mileage selling for £13,995 now!

But to be honest predictions don't mean jack, if you expect a Vauxhall to be worth 2/3's of it's value in 3yrs you've got to be joking.

55 plate astra VXR's for 11k now. So basically 50% of it's original value.

[Insignia VXR]

... to be honest predictions don't mean jack, if you expect a Vauxhall to be worth 2/3's of it's value in 3yrs you've got to be joking.

:confused: Nope £9,331 trade after 3 years / 60,000 miles for the Elite.
Point being its just as bad for the more expensive BM, both cars lose £20k.

.................................................. .......Year 0. Year 1 Year 2. Year 3 Year 4
BMW 3 Series Saloon 335i M Sport 4dr....34,980 21,055 17,683 14,803 12,473
Vauxhall Insignia Saloon 2.8V6 4x4 4dr. 28,885 14,501 11,447 .9,331 ..7,549http://www.whatcar.com/images/nav/spacer.gif

[soundofvoid]

Reading all this makes me think the thoughts of a buyer after 5 years of owning the car:
"Well, I passed 5 years of my life driving a car i didn't exactly like,without the extras i would like, but see now:I'got 5000 pounds more resale value!"=poor economics!

[Urban Splash]

28K for the top (non vxr) insignia????????

My god, GM must me sniffing glue. Will be worth 28p in a year.

28k????????????????????????????

I need to sit down.............

[Insignia VXR]

:roll::lol: We just did this...
The depreciation figures for a BMW 335 M-sport are worse 8)

[mfurse]

Two words - 335d and S8.

Reasons - the 335d makes mince meat of the 335i on the road, gets close to the levels of performance that the new M3 can get and you'll get to the right side of 35mpg!

S8 - a colleague just bought one, 2 years old, 10K miles, Lambo V10 engine, all the fruit (including a start button with a finger print reader which sets the car up for you!!) - price? £35K all in. Thats a hell of a lot of car for 35K.

[Insignia VXR]

Superchipped 335d is awesome 8)
New GM 2.9 V6 TwinTurbo diesel produces similar power/torque to the BMW diesel and will be available in the VXR.
Just wonder how much the warranty would be on a 2 year old S8?
Wouldn't like to meet the bill for fixing the fingerprint reader or the Lambo V10 :p