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Dexta23
23rd January 2010, 04:47 PM
Hello all. I have a Astra with a Z16LET engine in it. I was remapped and running 225bhp and 247 ft/lbs torque. when it started running rough with a bit of diagronising I found out that piston 4 has melted.

I took the car to courtenay today so that they can have a look for me as they are the ones who remapped it for me on the 8th Jan 2010.

I was just wondering if anyone had any ideas of a rough price for the uprated pistons as they couldnt give me a price today and I would like to hve a rough idea how much they would be to uprate them and stop this happening again.

So any help would be welcome thanks

Rabbid
23rd January 2010, 05:27 PM
Regal do them. I think Pistons are around 500-600 and same for con rods if you want them as well. Obviously that doesn't include fitting.

If you want to get on the road again Regal offer a piston 4 replacement service where they will install a new standard GM piston in for 600 all in.

randomgary
23rd January 2010, 06:47 PM
i think 2k all in will see pistons and rods uprated! but speak to jon and see what they think

Dexta23
23rd January 2010, 07:51 PM
Yeah i will have to have a word with jon at courtenay. I dont mind them putting standard ones back in but i just dont want it happening again. i want it to reliable and stronge. something that vauxhall didnt think about when building these engines.

randomgary
23rd January 2010, 07:57 PM
im sure jon will be as interested as you are as to why it happened! would be nice to hear how your getting on and what the findings are as its obviously a huge issue!

Dexta23
23rd January 2010, 08:40 PM
I will keep you updated as i know more. Jon did say he was suprised to being this problem with my car as all the figure showed it to be stop on.
Owell its happened now so just have to wait and see.

wayne/VXR
23rd January 2010, 10:08 PM
sorry to hear that mate,jon will look after you.

Dexta23
23rd January 2010, 11:21 PM
Yeah he said he will, he seems a really nice guy. The biggest problem for me at them moment is that money is tight and i didnt expect this to happen if you no what I mean.

I must say i have been a member on here for a while and not really posted anything. but everyone i have spoke to on here is really helps thanks all.

CandyX
31st January 2010, 10:26 PM
Hello Dexta,

I am sincerely very sorry about your motor. I drive the same car at 220bhp/242ft little more than 12000 miles. Till now whitout any problem, but no one knows what will be tomorrow. Which model year is your car? Do you had measured your max. boostpressure? Any manual correction on wastegate?

Are you decided for new forged rods and com pistons or financially more acceptable standart ones?

Dexta23
6th February 2010, 12:24 PM
Hello Dexta,

I am sincerely very sorry about your motor. I drive the same car at 220bhp/242ft little more than 12000 miles. Till now whitout any problem, but no one knows what will be tomorrow. Which model year is your car? Do you had measured your max. boostpressure? Any manual correction on wastegate?

Are you decided for new forged rods and com pistons or financially more acceptable standart ones?

Mines a 2007 plate one mate. Its done 25000mines from new. and it has done that meny miles on with the map on it. I dont know what the boost pressure is, the remaps all be done by courtenay motorsport. I havent touched the wastegate as i dont want to mess it up.
What map are you running on your car mate?

CandyX
6th February 2010, 09:47 PM
From 2008 plate has Z16LET rods with other part number (it can forecast other model of rods: http://www.c20let-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=79090&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=135 "Ich habe jetzt in Teilekatalog nachgeguckt ab MJ 2008 wurden andere Pleuel in denn ganzen 16LET Motoren verbaut."

But I have read also about 08 plate broken Z16LEx engines:(

I ride map from EDS via IPF. Together with mapping I have fitted also downpipe and boost gauge. Without wastegate adjustment turbo was boosting 25PSI so I set it to 21PSI.

Your decision is new standart or steel rods? I ruminate over steel ones + forged pistons as an insurance, eventually to achieve more power and torque, but I have read something about forged piston play in Z16LEx that can become in consequence of higher piston abrasion by cold engine starts.

Dexta23
7th February 2010, 12:51 AM
From 2008 plate has Z16LET rods with other part number (it can forecast other model of rods: http://www.c20let-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=79090&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=135 "Ich habe jetzt in Teilekatalog nachgeguckt ab MJ 2008 wurden andere Pleuel in denn ganzen 16LET Motoren verbaut."

But I have read also about 08 plate broken Z16LEx engines:(

I ride map from EDS via IPF. Together with mapping I have fitted also downpipe and boost gauge. Without wastegate adjustment turbo was boosting 25PSI so I set it to 21PSI.

Your decision is new standart or steel rods? I ruminate over steel ones + forged pistons as an insurance, eventually to achieve more power and torque, but I have read something about forged piston play in Z16LEx that can become in consequence of higher piston abrasion by cold engine starts.

I dont really understand much of that mate sorry. Are you just running a remap or have you got other upgrades?

CandyX
7th February 2010, 10:42 AM
Probably you dont understand because is my English faulty. Yes, I'm running remap only with replaced front-cat for a downpipe.

Dexta23
7th February 2010, 06:36 PM
Probably you dont understand because is my English faulty. Yes, I'm running remap only with replaced front-cat for a downpipe.

So have you got a differnent front mount intercooler?

CandyX
7th February 2010, 09:59 PM
IC yet an stock one, is in plan this spring

randomgary
7th February 2010, 10:24 PM
im getting you candy! candy has a map plus his precat removed and a freeflowing front pipe in its place! hes saying he had to manually adjust his boost when he replaced the precat! all other parts are standard

but as yours was done in house by courtenay they would have adjusted the boost if they thought it was an issue dexta!

Dexta23
8th February 2010, 07:09 PM
im getting you candy! candy has a map plus his precat removed and a freeflowing front pipe in its place! hes saying he had to manually adjust his boost when he replaced the precat! all other parts are standard

but as yours was done in house by courtenay they would have adjusted the boost if they thought it was an issue dexta!

Ok then mate thanks very much for explaining lol. Well i still havent got my car back :(.

I have an aftermarket intercooler on my car with a de-pre cat pipe.

Rabbid
8th February 2010, 07:33 PM
Probably you dont understand because is my English faulty. Yes, I'm running remap only with replaced front-cat for a downpipe.

Was this EDS software you used?

randomgary
8th February 2010, 07:34 PM
yea mate! hes using the ipf

Dexta23
11th February 2010, 09:25 PM
Car is back home now. I went a picked it up from courtenays last night and see drove home sweet as a nut.

I am very impressed with the job they have done on it and all the work they put in to getting it right. I know I will be using them alot more for now on.
And the price was better than i first thought aswel.

Thanks Courtenays Sport

moosh
11th February 2010, 11:38 PM
Car is back home now. I went a picked it up from courtenays last night and see drove home sweet as a nut.

I am very impressed with the job they have done on it and all the work they put in to getting it right. I know I will be using them alot more for now on.
And the price was better than i first thought aswel.

Thanks Courtenays Sport

So did you still have to pay to have it sorted mate?

lukeneale
11th February 2010, 11:48 PM
happy u got it back mate. what indication did you have so you knew u had it mate??

randomgary
11th February 2010, 11:49 PM
Car is back home now. I went a picked it up from courtenays last night and see drove home sweet as a nut.

I am very impressed with the job they have done on it and all the work they put in to getting it right. I know I will be using them alot more for now on.
And the price was better than i first thought aswel.

Thanks Courtenays Sport


happy days dude! good to see your a happy man

Insignia VXR
12th February 2010, 01:00 AM
courtenays uniqueness is that these problems are diagnosed and rectified before any tuning starts.
Not sure why the lad has had to put his hand in his pocket? :(

randomgary
12th February 2010, 01:04 AM
Not sure why the lad has had to put his hand in his pocket then? :(

so so much i could say right now, however the forum has come to some form of stability

he seems very happy! courtenay sport have taken care of him to the extent that he is going to use them again!

what i will say is with the frequency of piston 4 failing on both modified and standard z16le engines if mine should ever go i will not be seeking any assistance of my tuner! these pistons are crap and im going on record here to say i will pay myself to have it fixed

Flinty
12th February 2010, 01:10 AM
courtenays uniqueness is that these problems are diagnosed and rectified before any tuning starts.

:(

Care to elaborate on that comment?

Insignia VXR
12th February 2010, 08:57 AM
Care to elaborate on that comment?
Sure, I guess these type of issues aren't unique to handheld generic mapping but as Gary said as long as the chap is happy paying anyway.

the unique bit is key! john thorne has quoted on this site that around 10% of cars start off with some form of problem when diagnostics are carried out before any modifications! that would lead us to believe that 10% of any hand held generic mapping have problems before they even start! courtenays uniqueness is that these problems are diagnosed and rectified before any tuning starts

randomgary
12th February 2010, 09:12 AM
and im sure if you continue to search my posts you will also see where i say no tuning is 100% fail proof! what i did say was all problems are rectified before tuning starts! do you know whats happened since? Is this problem Unique to Courtenay's? How many courtenays piston 4 threads have we seen?

less than any other tuner my friend

yet another attempt by yourself insignia to try to drag me into a slagging session on the forum!

wayne/VXR
12th February 2010, 09:14 AM
people with the paper warranty have still had to pay.:lol:
if a tuner maps 50 cars and 1 goes wrong,what does this tell us.(more than likely the owner) or all the cars would of gone,if there was a problem.

Flinty
12th February 2010, 10:34 AM
Sure, I guess these type of issues aren't unique to handheld generic mapping but as Gary said as long as the chap is happy paying anyway. There's no need to guess, I would think it's fairly obvious that there is an underlying issue with piston #4. This issue is well documented (as you know) whereby it has affected standard cars aswell as tuned ones. No one tuner is immune from this, but as long as the owner is happy with the service that he has received, then that is all that matters. I'm quite sure if he wasn't, he would be telling a different story.

Hastie
12th February 2010, 10:44 AM
There's no need to guess, I would think it's fairly obvious that there is an underlying issue with piston #4. This issue is well documented (as you know) whereby it has affected standard cars aswell as tuned ones. No one tuner is immune from this, but as long as the owner is happy with the service that he has received, then that is all that matters. I'm quite sure if he wasn't, he would be telling a different story.

Agree 100% there flinty

Dexta23
12th February 2010, 03:32 PM
I did have to pay for the repair of my car but for all the work they did to the car to repair it and to diagnose the fault, I was suprised how cheap it was.

On my car they found the landa sensor had gone, and for some reason the car was de-ratting its self to a different fuel amount, which made it run lean. Even with the standard map back on the car it did the same. No one knew or could tell them why it did this, so they mapped it and set it up so that it cant ever run lean even when it chances over in the ecu.

So i can't explain it very well.

Im just really happy to have the car back and can continue with mys plans for it.

s4rpf
12th February 2010, 04:17 PM
I did have to pay for the repair of my car but for all the work they did to the car to repair it and to diagnose the fault, I was suprised how cheap it was.

On my car they found the landa sensor had gone, and for some reason the car was de-ratting its self to a different fuel amount, which made it run lean. Even with the standard map back on the car it did the same. No one knew or could tell them why it did this, so they mapped it and set it up so that it cant ever run lean even when it chances over in the ecu.

So i can't explain it very well.

Im just really happy to have the car back and can continue with mys plans for it.

Good that they looked into it in depth and got you running again glad your happy. Kudos for Courtney for doing this they could of easily fobbed you off saying abuse or not there fault vauxhalls problem

Dexta23
12th February 2010, 04:42 PM
Good that they looked into it in depth and got you running again glad your happy. Kudos for Courtney for doing this they could of easily fobbed you off saying abuse or not there fault vauxhalls problem

Yeah they could have done. but i am very impessed with what they have done.

moosh
12th February 2010, 05:36 PM
I did have to pay for the repair of my car but for all the work they did to the car to repair it and to diagnose the fault, I was suprised how cheap it was.

On my car they found the landa sensor had gone, and for some reason the car was de-ratting its self to a different fuel amount, which made it run lean. Even with the standard map back on the car it did the same. No one knew or could tell them why it did this, so they mapped it and set it up so that it cant ever run lean even when it chances over in the ecu.

So i can't explain it very well.

Im just really happy to have the car back and can continue with mys plans for it.

I think you may have been sold a BS story there mate imo.

If either lambda sensor fails then the ECU system defaults to run the car rich, not lean. Also if it ran lean then all the cylinders would be lean not just no4.

Id have though they would have picked up on the lamba and fuel issue when you got it remapped, i dont think its fair you had to pay for this work mate after all most tuners have a gentlemans agreement rather than a 'paper warrenty'.

Just my opinion though.

vxrdave
12th February 2010, 06:08 PM
I think you may have been sold a BS story there mate imo.

you sure you not mixing up your tuners imo


If not can we stick to facts anyone can post unhelpfull things like above. But it dont help just makes the forum a worse place to be.

moosh
12th February 2010, 07:51 PM
you sure you not mixing up your tuners imo


If not can we stick to facts anyone can post unhelpfull things like above. But it dont help just makes the forum a worse place to be.

I dont think what i wrote was unhelpful atol, if you want to check what ive written its all factual.

Same with any tuner thread people try to help.

Egg
12th February 2010, 08:14 PM
I think you may have been sold a BS story there mate imo.

If either lambda sensor fails then the ECU system defaults to run the car rich, not lean. Also if it ran lean then all the cylinders would be lean not just no4.

Id have though they would have picked up on the lamba and fuel issue when you got it remapped, i dont think its fair you had to pay for this work mate after all most tuners have a gentlemans agreement rather than a 'paper warrenty'.

Just my opinion though.

This is only if the sensor fails completely though. If it's just reporting wrong but within acceptable limits of the ecu then it sounds quite feasible over a time

this may also explain why cars have had repeat problems as this may nit have been found during piston replacemnet etc

moosh
12th February 2010, 08:24 PM
This is only if the sensor fails completely though. If it's just reporting wrong but within acceptable limits of the ecu then it sounds quite feasible over a time

this may also explain why cars have had repeat problems as this may nit have been found during piston replacement etc

It had only been mapped for 15 days, id have though on the Full diagnostics prior to mapping it would have been spotted then and rectified. I know thats why there is alot of guys on the site that prefer to have it mapped at a tuner rather than using a hand held device.

Insignia VXR
12th February 2010, 08:26 PM
sorry I haven't explained my point at all well!

On the Sensor issue maybe Stu could post and clarify what the protection mode is when this type of error is triggered?
Unless they have changed, vx ecu's would always run rich - never heard of them deliberately going lean!

A question for the mothership 8)

Heavenly
13th February 2010, 07:27 PM
you sure you not mixing up your tuners imo


If not can we stick to facts anyone can post unhelpfull things like above. But it dont help just makes the forum a worse place to be.

And what tuner would he be mixing up with Dave..As Flinty and everyone on the staff posts care to clarify your post seeing as the word bs was used?

all seems to be running very one sided on here yet again?

Mark your wasteing your time mate....

tin545
13th February 2010, 07:34 PM
And what tuner would he be mixing up with Dave..As Flinty and everyone on the staff posts care to clarify your post seeing as the word bs was used?

all seems to be running very one sided on here yet again?

Mark your wasteing your time mate....

Well your no longer in that staffroom an we all know whos side you were on when you were

tin545
13th February 2010, 07:35 PM
The guy had his car fixed,hes happy so why isnt this thread closed before the usuall suspects start picking at the thread,courtenays are talking bull apparently,what do they know about tuning,makes you laugh at times.If you know so much moosh why arnt you tuning cars then

Heavenly
13th February 2010, 07:37 PM
Well your no longer in that staffroom an we all know whos side you were on when you were

Yes but i didnt accuse other tuners of talking bs even though some ripped people off on here and almost ruined their cars so that they had no option but to sell FACT! And as we say the truth is out there.

I think all that was asked was clarification if a car runs lean or rich when it goes down , i have no idea as im not technical but i can see the usual in this thread....the guy who stated what he thinks is a fact was accused of not being helpful pmsl , i bet hes not!!

tin545
13th February 2010, 07:41 PM
Yes but i didnt accuse other tuners of talking bs even though some ripped people off on here and almost ruined their cars so that they had no option but to sell FACT! And as we say the truth is out there.

I think all that was asked was clarification if a car runs lean or rich when it goes down , i have no idea as im not technical but i can see the usual in this thread....the guy who stated what he thinks is a fact was accused of not being helpful pmsl , i bet hes not!!

I think it was moosh that said cs were talking bull dude,it wasnt flinty or dave marc,anyway i think you agree that this needs closed,the forum dosnt need the tuner bashing back.You know better than anyone from moderating how these end up.

I didnt see anything wrong with flinty or dave posts tbh

An ill back you up there to be fair you never would of said anything bad or wroing about another tuner,but we all know your favourite,which is understandable as you use them :)

tin545
13th February 2010, 07:43 PM
Someone must of rung john as hes watching,this is very childish guys seriously,tms is mentioned an someone is on the blower,makes you laugh it really does

Heavenly
13th February 2010, 07:47 PM
I think it was moosh that said cs were talking bull dude,it wasnt flinty or dave marc,anyway i think you agree that this needs closed,the forum dosnt need the tuner bashing back.You know better than anyone from moderating how these end up.

I didnt see anything wrong with flinty or dave posts tbh

An ill back you up there to be fair you never would of said anything bad or wroing about another tuner,but we all know your favourite,which is understandable as you use them :)

yes your correct because he obviously doesnt agree due to the facts he believes in , dave then posted you sure you not got your tuners mixed up so im asking which tuner? simple question to his post?

tin545
13th February 2010, 07:52 PM
yes your correct because he obviously doesnt agree due to the facts he believes in , dave then posted you sure you not got your tuners mixed up so im asking which tuner? simple question to his post?

But from someone who backs tms up in every thread is it wise to say this in such away,surely with all thats went on on this site that is not a sensible post.

Kieran23
13th February 2010, 07:52 PM
what do they say again, assumption is the mother of all **** ups, or something along them lines.

How can people on here diagnose a fault or even accuse Courtenay of sprouting BS, when they dont even know the details with the car.

As you say marc the truth is out there, and it would certainly would help if people didnt jump to conclusions when they dont know the full story. But then we've been here with tuners in the past havent we ;)

Heavenly
13th February 2010, 07:58 PM
But from someone who backs tms up in every thread is it wise to say this in such away,surely with all thats went on on this site that is not a sensible post.

I would say a post like this from a moderator is more of an unsensible post dont you agree? Im just stateing facts of what ive read , simples.

tin545
13th February 2010, 08:01 PM
I would say a post like this from a moderator is more of an unsensible post dont you agree? Im just stateing facts of what ive read , simples.

He could be talking about anyone for all we know:D

A bit off topic,weres the best place to get bilberry(think thats the good wheel cleaner)any links dude

Mandy
13th February 2010, 09:33 PM
The moderation team are ascertaining all the facts before we decide whether this thread needs to be re-opened again.

VXR Staff
15th February 2010, 03:21 PM
This thread was closed at the request of the OP following some comments which were posted. We've reviewed the situation with the tuner involved with the work, and the following is the result of gaining the facts.

At the outset both customer and tuner are happy of what had occured in fact the customer will be having more work done. The car was mapped for 99 octane , ran on 97 octane, cracked a plug and the customer continued to run for a period of time on 99 octane.

As the problems worsened the customer took the car to the dealer and they pulled the following trouble codes and sent the customer back to the tuner:

P0130 Lambda low voltage
P0170 Fuel trim malfunction
P0304 Cyl 4 Misfire
P0300 Random Cyl Misfire

A replacement piston was fitted and car run up on the dyno. Car was fuel trimming its self lean by up to 19%, if the learn values were reset. Indicating the sensor was reporting inaccurate though plausible values back to the ECU, the car would occasionally default the lambda to TC 130 (Lambda low voltage). Putting the light on then going into fuel safe mode i.e rich. Furthermore it did this both on the modified software and the Standard GM software to which there are currently no updates.

The lambda sensor was also changed which solved this issue.

So it appears that not all of the facts were made apparent at the time, and in future I'd ask that be the case before the accusations start flying around.