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  • #46
    same again as i keep saying. what works for one may not work for the other.

    im not lying to you. my car has regals stage 2 and is about 270-275. that shows how much they can differ.

    hell i couldve said my car has 900 brake but it hasnt
    stage 2 vxr

    [email protected]

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    • #47
      yeah i see mate thanks
      Astra vxr mk2 with stage 1 EDS remap

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      • #48
        Originally posted by andy16vturbo
        again this depends on outside air temp, discrepencies on the rollers etc etc.

        regal are very optimistic with there claims and they always have been. no doubt if i put my car on different rollers it would have a different reading.

        my car was pretty much new when it was tuned which could be one of the reasons it was underpowered.

        look at the total vaux feature at thorney rolling road. there rollers are supposed to be one of the best in the country and the nearly all stage 2 vxrs with milteks where putting around 260 bhp.

        this shows how much the difference can be between rollin road results
        Thorney had only just had the rollers fitted and there was some issues with running them on the day. None of the cars were showing what they really were showing.

        I placed a thread on this board when I saw the article and they fully explained the reasons....

        please see....

        http://www.vxronline.co.uk/messagebo...ighlight=worms

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        • #49
          thanks for explaining but i think if dargy got 273 with the map and just front decat im sure i will see 280 with same map and full system
          Astra vxr mk2 with stage 1 EDS remap

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          • #50
            i cant see why people are that obsessed with figures! surly you should go on how much quicker it feels.

            what if you got stage 2 and never got a printout, but you where happy with the power? would you be any less happy with the increase if you later found out it was 5-10 brake less than you thought.

            my car might not be as powerful on paper next to the next guy with stage 2 but IM happy with it, and thats how you should go. not by the bit of paper that comes with it
            stage 2 vxr

            [email protected]

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            • #51
              I cant believe it either! lol

              At the end of the day it is all down to the roller's callibration and temperature etc, as has already been said a billion times.

              End of! lol

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              • #52
                Originally posted by corsasrisilver
                thanks for explaining but i think if dargy got 273 with the map and just front decat im sure i will see 280 with same map and full system
                you seem as though the figures are the most important part of tunning your car. :?
                i supose everyone wants there car running as much power as possible but i`d wait and make judgements on how it drives rather than the figures quoted.

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                • #53
                  yeah think thats what its all about really, just like to consider options and travelling expenses to and from.
                  Astra vxr mk2 with stage 1 EDS remap

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                  • #54
                    i could sit down the pub and tell everyone my car is 285 brake but is isnt. im not bothered what power it is as longs as it feels about right to me. its a bit faster than standard so that'll do me. if it was alot lower that normal id winge but i aint gonna winge about 10 hp.

                    my car maybe 280, with it being ran in now and the coil and plugs changed but im not bothered wether its 260, 270 or 280 as long as it feels ok.

                    and when i get stage 3, as long as its quicker than it is now, i'll be happy. you can keep your rolling road pritouts
                    stage 2 vxr

                    [email protected]

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                    • #55
                      True. Its all well and good getting high bhp but you need to hold that figure:

                      eg you could get a car that hits 290bhp from 6000-6100rpm and then drops.

                      OR

                      A car that hits 280bhp but holds from 6000-7000rpm

                      Peak figs really aren’t important. I'm happy with mine as I get 270bhp between 5000-6000rpm just when I need it.
                      sigpic

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                      • #56
                        Figs are pub info.... it depends on what you can make your car do.

                        look at the topgear laptrack board.... same car week in week out, varying times due to driver ability.

                        I had my stage 2 for 2 months before it went on the RR, it is how it felt which counted.

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                        • #57
                          sorry dont know how to link in other threads.
                          johns at tms sums this up in a nutsell IMHO

                          Originally posted by Thorney
                          Tuning is all about taking componants to their maximum then taking the tune back a bit to get the longevity back whilst maximising the gains that tend to be what all tuners release as their product. You can only tune up to the weakest componant until you change that componant, hence its all done in stages.

                          The ECU map in all the stages is identical in terms of process (laptop, lead, OBD port, time) but the content of that map and the response it has on the vehicle is determined by the companants the car has fitted to it. We can put a stage 3 map on a standard car but it won't perform to 300bhp as the rest of the cars componantry wont let it. So (for TMS) a stage 1 ECU remap on a stock car has a map which is suitable for a standard car, with ultimate power being limited by both heat and the exhaust. Stage 2 sorts that with a full Milltek so then we're limited by the heat build up. Stage 3 sorts that with a choice on intercoolers (now available) so we can run more agreesive maps. Yes you can interchange with part systems etc but that does mean the reuslts are less clear.

                          As regards the stage 3 maps, we've spent a VERY long time developing these as I think its the ultimate, sensibile level of tune for the car. Stage 1 and 2 are great as they give excellent performance for reasonable ££ but to my mind not addressing the cooling is a short term view on the result. Hence a stage 3 by adding better cooling for the car to my mind represents the perfect tune. The only downside has been this quest for higher numbers to quote down the pub which means some people lose sight of the concept of the best tune simply to get the highest number.

                          I can categorically state that with the standard VXR injectors and fuel pump there is no physicial way to get more than 300bhp and indeed its a little bit less than that. We've gone as far as putting the rail and injectors on a test rig and measuring the flow via an oscilloscope (I think thats how its spelled) so we know what they can and cannot do. So, for TMS we'll limit the stage 3's to about 290-295bhp and about 320llbs of torque - which frankly is already into the very silly level To go any higher than that would need different injectors and fuel pump but seeing as the turbo is likely to max out its flow rate at a little over 310bhp and the clutch and diff at around the same level the porcess to get to 350bhp or so gets very expensive.

                          Look at our race VXT, to get over 330bhp we've needed to replace the turbo, the cams, the head, the pistons, rods, injectors, fuel pump and the boost controller and even then we're still having issues just yet. To do all that you're looking at £12k so the idea of 325bhp for a chip and pipe is so silly I'm struggling to type it.

                          In my honest opinion we've hit the tuning impasse with the car. Up to 300bhp (or thereabouts) is a reasonable, achieveable result which takes the componants up to a threshold that they can maintain and more importantly warranty (as TMS does). Its safe for the car and really gets as far as is sensible for a FWD car. To go above 300bhp you really are looking at major major work. Firstly the drivetrain (be it gb, diff, drifeshafts) will start to go well beyond their design limits (but still maybe within their actual limits, remember manufacturers build a fair bit of leeway into the specs) so there's a potential cost of £2k. The turbo won't go much further so add another £1k or so for a roller bearing Garet or somesuch. Exhaust will need a 3" bore (we've done a Milltek one but not much point releasing it yet) you'll need higher flow injectors, probably a higher flow fuel pump and higher duration and lift cams combined with a flowed head, so add another £2k to that. Do all that and you'll have 330-350bhp. Then you're at the maximum of the engine, so you'll need rods and pistons and whilst you're in there you might as well balance the crank, ditch the balancer shafts, replace the water pump and dry sump it, so another £3k or so, then you should have about 350-375bhp and a wallet about £11k lighter and a power delivery best described as 'committed'

                          I've no doubt there will be a few extra tweaks here and there to get the cars over 300bhp (just running on a dyno with the bonnet open 'gains' 6bhp ffs) but the net result is that to go beyond 295bhp or so requires a whole next level of tuning which (I'm glad to say) people like us will do (well, we have done) and a few customers will want the same (thank god....I've got a 3 year old that needs new shoes ) but for the most part and for most people a stage 3 decently done will be the pinacle of power tuning. What I hope (well, pray) owners will do is look at the whole chassis and spend as much time and effort getting the handling and braking right as we do at the power, after all power, is nothing without control. I drove a VXR astra with stage 2 round Brands the other month and compared it with a stock Astra VXR but with KW's and sticky tyres.....I was almost a second a lap faster in the stock power car.
                          [/url]

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                          • #58
                            Agree

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                            • #59
                              yeah stage 3 is im sure all im taking it to, then im gonna set about gettin some APs and perhaps upgrade to a full coilover kit
                              Astra vxr mk2 with stage 1 EDS remap

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                              • #60
                                is peoples general opinion that the astra vxr is good for 300 bup or so but anything beyond that is wasted power due to the front wheel drive and chassis set up, as thats my opinion i think. just intercooler and map left for me now lol.
                                Astra vxr mk2 with stage 1 EDS remap

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