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  • Stim1961
    replied
    nice one mate
    and may i be the first to say "they told you so" corsasrisilver

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  • regalvxr
    replied
    Just had it fitted, sounds great !!! seems to give then engine a kind of "whisp" sound when its revved. The tailpipe came out a bit when it was warmed up too. combination of dv and exhaust sounds great, i assume when its coked up a bit it wiill get better too

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  • VX Mel
    replied
    cool. enjoy the drive home from there... the only noise you will be listening to is the roar from the rear end :wink:

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  • regalvxr
    replied
    oh yeah defo mate, just spoke to stuart at my dealership. lol

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  • VX Mel
    replied
    are you sure corsa?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

    will feel 10times better with all that noise

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  • regalvxr
    replied
    being fitted today at 3 pm cant wait now im like a kid at xmas

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  • regalvxr
    replied
    is peoples general opinion that the astra vxr is good for 300 bup or so but anything beyond that is wasted power due to the front wheel drive and chassis set up, as thats my opinion i think. just intercooler and map left for me now lol.

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  • regalvxr
    replied
    yeah stage 3 is im sure all im taking it to, then im gonna set about gettin some APs and perhaps upgrade to a full coilover kit

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  • VX Mel
    replied
    Agree

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  • Stim1961
    replied
    sorry dont know how to link in other threads.
    johns at tms sums this up in a nutsell IMHO

    Originally posted by Thorney
    Tuning is all about taking componants to their maximum then taking the tune back a bit to get the longevity back whilst maximising the gains that tend to be what all tuners release as their product. You can only tune up to the weakest componant until you change that componant, hence its all done in stages.

    The ECU map in all the stages is identical in terms of process (laptop, lead, OBD port, time) but the content of that map and the response it has on the vehicle is determined by the companants the car has fitted to it. We can put a stage 3 map on a standard car but it won't perform to 300bhp as the rest of the cars componantry wont let it. So (for TMS) a stage 1 ECU remap on a stock car has a map which is suitable for a standard car, with ultimate power being limited by both heat and the exhaust. Stage 2 sorts that with a full Milltek so then we're limited by the heat build up. Stage 3 sorts that with a choice on intercoolers (now available) so we can run more agreesive maps. Yes you can interchange with part systems etc but that does mean the reuslts are less clear.

    As regards the stage 3 maps, we've spent a VERY long time developing these as I think its the ultimate, sensibile level of tune for the car. Stage 1 and 2 are great as they give excellent performance for reasonable ££ but to my mind not addressing the cooling is a short term view on the result. Hence a stage 3 by adding better cooling for the car to my mind represents the perfect tune. The only downside has been this quest for higher numbers to quote down the pub which means some people lose sight of the concept of the best tune simply to get the highest number.

    I can categorically state that with the standard VXR injectors and fuel pump there is no physicial way to get more than 300bhp and indeed its a little bit less than that. We've gone as far as putting the rail and injectors on a test rig and measuring the flow via an oscilloscope (I think thats how its spelled) so we know what they can and cannot do. So, for TMS we'll limit the stage 3's to about 290-295bhp and about 320llbs of torque - which frankly is already into the very silly level To go any higher than that would need different injectors and fuel pump but seeing as the turbo is likely to max out its flow rate at a little over 310bhp and the clutch and diff at around the same level the porcess to get to 350bhp or so gets very expensive.

    Look at our race VXT, to get over 330bhp we've needed to replace the turbo, the cams, the head, the pistons, rods, injectors, fuel pump and the boost controller and even then we're still having issues just yet. To do all that you're looking at £12k so the idea of 325bhp for a chip and pipe is so silly I'm struggling to type it.

    In my honest opinion we've hit the tuning impasse with the car. Up to 300bhp (or thereabouts) is a reasonable, achieveable result which takes the componants up to a threshold that they can maintain and more importantly warranty (as TMS does). Its safe for the car and really gets as far as is sensible for a FWD car. To go above 300bhp you really are looking at major major work. Firstly the drivetrain (be it gb, diff, drifeshafts) will start to go well beyond their design limits (but still maybe within their actual limits, remember manufacturers build a fair bit of leeway into the specs) so there's a potential cost of £2k. The turbo won't go much further so add another £1k or so for a roller bearing Garet or somesuch. Exhaust will need a 3" bore (we've done a Milltek one but not much point releasing it yet) you'll need higher flow injectors, probably a higher flow fuel pump and higher duration and lift cams combined with a flowed head, so add another £2k to that. Do all that and you'll have 330-350bhp. Then you're at the maximum of the engine, so you'll need rods and pistons and whilst you're in there you might as well balance the crank, ditch the balancer shafts, replace the water pump and dry sump it, so another £3k or so, then you should have about 350-375bhp and a wallet about £11k lighter and a power delivery best described as 'committed'

    I've no doubt there will be a few extra tweaks here and there to get the cars over 300bhp (just running on a dyno with the bonnet open 'gains' 6bhp ffs) but the net result is that to go beyond 295bhp or so requires a whole next level of tuning which (I'm glad to say) people like us will do (well, we have done) and a few customers will want the same (thank god....I've got a 3 year old that needs new shoes ) but for the most part and for most people a stage 3 decently done will be the pinacle of power tuning. What I hope (well, pray) owners will do is look at the whole chassis and spend as much time and effort getting the handling and braking right as we do at the power, after all power, is nothing without control. I drove a VXR astra with stage 2 round Brands the other month and compared it with a stock Astra VXR but with KW's and sticky tyres.....I was almost a second a lap faster in the stock power car.
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  • VX Mel
    replied
    Figs are pub info.... it depends on what you can make your car do.

    look at the topgear laptrack board.... same car week in week out, varying times due to driver ability.

    I had my stage 2 for 2 months before it went on the RR, it is how it felt which counted.

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  • Dargy
    replied
    True. Its all well and good getting high bhp but you need to hold that figure:

    eg you could get a car that hits 290bhp from 6000-6100rpm and then drops.

    OR

    A car that hits 280bhp but holds from 6000-7000rpm

    Peak figs really aren’t important. I'm happy with mine as I get 270bhp between 5000-6000rpm just when I need it.

    Leave a comment:


  • andy16vturbo
    replied
    i could sit down the pub and tell everyone my car is 285 brake but is isnt. im not bothered what power it is as longs as it feels about right to me. its a bit faster than standard so that'll do me. if it was alot lower that normal id winge but i aint gonna winge about 10 hp.

    my car maybe 280, with it being ran in now and the coil and plugs changed but im not bothered wether its 260, 270 or 280 as long as it feels ok.

    and when i get stage 3, as long as its quicker than it is now, i'll be happy. you can keep your rolling road pritouts

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  • regalvxr
    replied
    yeah think thats what its all about really, just like to consider options and travelling expenses to and from.

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  • leepy
    replied
    Originally posted by corsasrisilver
    thanks for explaining but i think if dargy got 273 with the map and just front decat im sure i will see 280 with same map and full system
    you seem as though the figures are the most important part of tunning your car. :?
    i supose everyone wants there car running as much power as possible but i`d wait and make judgements on how it drives rather than the figures quoted.

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