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  • astra tuners


    This is going to start a mass debate????
    Hearing so many conflicting stories from different tuners.. Basically after a stage 2 remap and a miltek exhaust. Spoke to VXR performance centre today who said just have it remapped and not to bother with the exhaust as it didn't make a difference, I was led to believe that this gave the car an extra 12/15 bhp and improve the sound of the car no end.
    Have spoken to Regal at the Performance Vauxhall show and they didn't really know anything wasn't really impressed with their attitude. They said have the remap and the back section done but they don't do the MILTEK
    Have spoken to Thorney Motorsport/Courtney both seem quite clued up and have said to have the remapped and full system fitted where as the other say to have the remap and/or only the back section fitted.
    WHO DO I USE????? HELP!!!!!!!!!!!
    Would welcome some honest advice
    :wink: :wink:

  • #2
    Well.. both Vauxhalls tuned cars overheated and pulled timing on the rollers at the VXR rolling road day at Thorneys gaff.
    Regal have a 340bhp kits that.. well ...erm.. pinch of salt
    I`d go for the Milltek ANYWAY just for the sound.
    Until a car is tuned buy all the tuners and run on all the tuners rolling roads on the same day for comparison then i suppose we will never know.
    I expected more from my stage 2 and will get more as promised but with 1500 miles on the clock its hardly loosened up yet . More to come but im absolutely in love with the Milltek great for scaring kids mums etc.
    The tuners are still learning and trying out new stuff lets face it they have had a very short space of time to develop the packages and im sure they will gain/improve as time goes on. Thorney`s map are/will be updated for free...Correct me if im wrong John
    Andy

    Comment


    • #3
      As too fast said VPC "had issues" on the Thorney R/R day.
      There car did a 14.2 on sunday at PV with "just a remap" and I had a looksie at the car as it drove past and saw loads of gauges inside you dont find on a normal VXR (looked like an ST LOL)
      I saw Thorney's car do a 14.4 (beat an STI!!) in the afternoon which was V/surprising due to how hot it was
      I've gone for C/S stage 2, and am well happy with it, and whilst I'm no scientist there is no way I would spend £1,150 on an exhaust just for the sound it makes :?
      Just for the record the fastest Astra Vxr on sunday done a 13.4 and was running basicly C/S stage 3 (slick tyers and diffrent exhaust TBF)
      Have a good read of the forums (not just here) and make your own mind up m8, but I really would recomend you atleast ditch the Pre/Cat from your exhaust to compliment any remap you have.
      BTW my car made 282 bhp and 317.5 lbft when it had the C/S stage 2
      john'o

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      • #4
        What I did say was ,have the remap done as that is where you will feel the biggest difference,this is VXPC prefered route for level 1 There is nothing wrong with the Miltek ,TMS will show you the graphs to prove it gives an increase in power,
        Do the maths its very easy £550 for a remap which has been proven on the strip, gives a definate increase in performance ,or £1300 for a Miltek that makes a fantastic noise ,eggs you on but is no where near the difference a remap does, and that goes for everyone who offers a remap anyone who tells you that an exhaust will give you the same level of tune and feel is just a salesman.
        VXPC sell the miltek ,all VXL dealers sell the Miltek so if it aint working somewhere then we shouldnt be selling it,
        I said to you we have one in stock and thats a lot of money on the shelf.
        Someone will be along soon to put more fuel on the fire Im sure of it but weve had this debate before so I wont be coming back to this one .
        You go with who you trust and I would say ask to try a re map, before you buy, it can be arranged by all if they want the business.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: astra tuners

          Originally posted by michael parkes
          Spoke to VXR performance centre today who said just have it remapped and not to bother with the exhaust as it didn't make a difference
          Interesting advice.
          A strong reason to have the full Milltek fitted is that it helps dissipate heat away from the engine - cooling being a key factor in tuning an LEH engine.
          With the benefit of this improvement in residual heat its possible to use a more 'aggresive' software re-map to get even better performance over a stage one map.
          At one point I believe the VPC were using the same software for stage 1 AND stage 2....... so may partly explain their view of the Milltek.
          Having had the full Milltek running on a std car, regardless of quoted figures, it does makes a very noticeable difference in performance. I believe there is video footage available of the performance difference over a standard car on the road.
          Fuel dumped on fire
          sigpic

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          • #6
            Hi Michael,
            (Sorry about the length....I just couldn't stop typing!)
            I am one of those people who has the VPC Stage 1 remap and I was on the rollers at TMS. I don't have the Milltek and yes you don't NEED it but I do want one. I took the VPC car out before I had the remap done. You get nice smooth power delivery with the Milltek whereas without it's not as smooth. You also get some more power and a nicer noise but it isn't required as such from my understanding.
            When my car was on the rollers John informed me that it had very high temps. The Milltek would help with the temps but in the real world (ie. on the road!) the temps have no impact on performance. (I'm sure I'll be corrected if that is not the case but I'm sure Dave from VPC has stated this on one forum somewhere!) I personally haven't noticed any loss of performance on the few hot days we have had. It goes like a rocket!!! (And in the hands of Tom Chilton it goes like a manic rocket!!! )
            I know a lot has been said about that day on Astra-SRi but I'm not sure where the temps causing the VPC cars to back off came from. I was under the impression it was all cars on the day?? Louise's (MissVXR) car didn't perform as expected which was disappointing. I don't know why...just one of those things??? Anyway, I posted my graph up and so did Shane. His bhp at the wheels was only slightly higher than mine. So did mine and Shane's car back off due too heat, was that a bad run???? I don't know.
            Anyway, I'm can't say I have much in the way of knowledge of cars and as I said, a lot has been said about that day. However, people on the various forums have gone to VPC, TMS, Regal and Courtneys and ALL have been very happy with the remaps.
            One thing a few people have sent about this tuning lark...pick the tuner closest to you. That way if something does go wrong or you need something changed you haven't got far to go.
            I personally choose VPC in the end because it's Vauxhall at the end of the day. Not that I have anything against TMS. I've spoken to John and he a nice bloke with a lot of knowledge. The same goes for the people at VPC. I'm sure the same can be said of the other tuners as well. I am very happy with the remap. It transforms the car into an even greater car. I'm sure we all agree on that!
            I hope that helps a bit. It's just my understanding of everything as a customer and I'm sure I'll be corrected if I'm wrong!

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            • #7
              couldn't have said it better myself Ian lol x

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              • #8
                As ever these threads end up with a variety of issues so I'll try to comment on everything spotted.
                1. As far as BHP per £ spent, yes a remap is the best choice, you will get more for your money. However adding a Milltek does have the added effect of smoothing out the power delivery and sucking heat from the engine bay meaning you get more power from car more of the time. TMS stage 2 maps are very different to stage 1 maps as we tailor the map to the full Milltek (I believe we are the only tuner to do this). There are completely different boost maps from stage 1 to stage 2. All of our maps are upgradeable for free.
                2. The only car to suffer detonation on the TMS open day was the Vauxhall development car by OPC in Germany, It was running a development ECU and will never be released (it also got the highest power). None of the stage 2 tuned cars from TMS or VPC detted but the VPC cars ran (on average) 8-10 degrees higher intake temps which might explain why they were on average 6-8bhp lower than TMS cars. This (we assume) is due to the fact they run stage 1 maps with Millteks on rather than change the map (in all honesty we don't know why).
                3. The TMS dyno is 100% accurate, testified by the fact that standard cars come out with near complete standard power figures but we've NEVER seen a stage 2 with over 270bhp (at the flywheel) with a 220-225bhp at the wheels measured, and that includes the OPC car. We have now tested cars from us, VPC, Courtenay and despite whatever power claims they ALL average around 255-265bhp. It is distinctly likely that Courtenay and Regals dynos measure their flywheel figures more 'optimistically' than our - no problem with that but people need to be aware that there are differences. We've offered to participate (and even help pay for) an independant test of all three dynos (same day, same car) but have thus far been refused. In our opinion Courtenay and Regals measurement of BHP is simply different to ours (and each others) so no-one is lying but we'd like the buying public to know that there are differences. It does none of us any favours to explain to another tuners customer (who has driven straight from one tuner after having work done and comes in proudly holding a 280bhp power chart) to be told that its actually 260bhp on our dyno. If they are different then we should at least know that is the case. I'd include VPC into this but they don't have a dyno and thus far have declined to name their own 'reliable' one they use. However they used to use WRC Tech who have the same dyno as us and we know that they've never seen anything more than 270bhp on any run on any car ever - which surprises me when they attended the TMS day with a supposed 300bhp car
                3. We ran our car, which is running a stage 2 map with a charge cooler, once, in the hottest part of the day after lining up for over 90 mins and it still ran a 14.4. If we'd run it again and again (and treated it like testing) then we'd have knocked a load of time off that purely down to getting the technique right. The stage 3 map we've written for it adds extra power both at the bottom and top end but we've yet to finally test it in full summer heat.
                To keep to the topic, here is the same car run with an without a Milltek full system, we're the only people to actually bother to conduct such testing and until someone else does their own comprehensive testing frankly I'm dismissive of forum BS about the subject:

                Same car, same day. Add this kind of data to the sheer amount of commentary from people who have had the system fitted to ALL say the car actually feels quicker is all I need to prove that the system works. Yes, a stage 1 ECU will give you more power for less money but the top end becomes strangled as the exhaust gasses can't release fast enough and mid range is lower for the same reason, hence we run a completely difierent map on a stage 2 - perhaps thats the reason, we actually develop different levels of map for the car rather than just chuck any old remap into them.

                Comment


                • #9
                  To add fuel to the fire, 6bhp difference and no discernable torque for £1150+??? Alot of money, just for sound. I know all the forum 'BS' as u put it, but on the road, those gains will not be noticable. I have driven std cars and miltek' cars back to back, and to be honest they perform as well as each other, the miltek sounds much better, but in reality your money could be better spent on brakes, suspension or even driver training. All will make the car quicker than the exhaust.
                  IMHO
                  Insignia VXR, quite nippy!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    The 6bhp is the peak power gain, if you look at the curves the midrange gain is significantly better and every single person we've spoken to confirm that the car is faster just with the system on its own. How can you say 'no discernable torque'? At 5800rpm the Milltek offers a clear 30llb's extra! And you can't compare a Milltek'd car with a non Miltek'd car back to back, the cars vary in power by up to 10%, the only true comparison can be same car with and without a Milltek - done that have we?
                    I have said if its pure power upgrades an ECU remap offers more actual bhp per £ (thats the case with all remaps) but the exhaust swap offers a lot more than just power, indeed power is actually the least of the gains (and always will be).

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                    • #11
                      You'd be surprised at what I've done John!!!
                      But here isnt the time or place to discuss it, as I said, sounds great but doesnt offer good value for money. IMHO.
                      Insignia VXR, quite nippy!

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                      • #12
                        that comparison graph does proves there is gains to be made (not to the level of a remap) and not just in peak power figures, which in all honesty is not whats its all about unless you can feather the throtle and remain in that power band throughout each gear, the power remains much more constant across the rev range where in standard the power curve drops off considerably in comparison, many of us who have had the milltek fitted prior to a remap have noticed a difference from a standard set up and yeah the sounds is superb

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                        • #13
                          I have had A Miltek longer than anybody else !!! I never drove a standard car !!! I bought the cat back first and was quite frankly unimpressed, improvement to sound but that was about it. Having since had the front sections fitted there is a huge improvement to performance which I cannot believe is truly measurable upon a rolling road, if anything the full system may actually reduce bhp figures upon a rolling road. Up against a standard car the performance increase is easily noticeable, To develop the car past a stage one remap the miltek is essential. Just one warning to you all, My Miltek was fitted by a Vauxhall Dealer who positioned it so badly it burnt a whole through the bumper, have it fitted by somebody who actually knows what they are doing and steer well clear of vauxhall dealerships, the money I have paid to the dealer for the exhaust and yet they refuse to replace a small section of the bumper that they damaged. If you were a dealer and you had done this to my car what would you offer by way of an apology ?

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                          • #14
                            ALL dealers ???
                            Sweeping statement and unfounded.
                            Insignia VXR, quite nippy!

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                            • #15
                              Just to add my 10 pence worth
                              I have the full system fitted and is it value for money---- absolutely it does make a difference in power (I drove standard car for 4 months) and even if you have a remap done but not the exhaust there will be a day when you hear a vxr with one and you will say"why dont mine sound like that"
                              My suggestion to anyone would be to definately get it, I dont have a remap done (its on the cards though) but for now the exhaust keeps me very happy when Im in the car and I have not heard anyone who has it say it was not worth getting.

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