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  • Unreasonable Punishment

    The other day I was on my way home at about 10pm, (it was a dry night and it is also a dual carriageway with barriers preventing pedestrians crossing, even though there wasn't anyone around). I was followed by a purple BMW for about 5 minutes and then all of a sudden it lights up like a blue christmas tree. I pulled over and the officer told me he was pulling me over for doing 49mph in a 40mph zone. I was polite said I was sorry and after a 5 minute lecture he tells me that I have a £60 fine and have to attend a speed reduction seminar... I thought I would only get a warning since he was following me and could only get me for a maximum of 9mph over the limit. He also said in the lecture that I was driving dangerously for the road conditions. What did amuse me though is that halfway through my lecture two cars went racing past at least at 90mph, so I saved their asses.

    Is it just me or is this unfair? I don't mind attending the seminar, hopefully it will have a positive outcome and I might learn something new. But the only thing the fine has done is put me further in debt, and personally I don't think any fine will slow me down, the points alone are a great idea, even if I can only have 6 since I haven't got the full 12 for having a license for 2 years. If you read this police_driver I wouldn't mind hearing your opinion on this, and what you wouild have done in this situation.

  • #2
    What you could have done, if he thinks you were doin 49mph you could have asked him if he had video evedance and if the car was fitted with it if it was you have the right to view that. If not how can he just juge that you were doing 9 mph over.........

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    • #3
      Well it was quite a high end looking unmarked BMW, so I assume it was fully kitted out, although I am not sure I do have the right to see the footage since I have been offered this course and fine as an alternative to prosecution, but I may just ask anyway, I have sent them a letter alongside the cheque which I don't think they will be too happy about, I will post a copy of it on here when I have a chance (its saved on my laptop which i left at work)

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      • #4
        dont go upsetting them you could come unstuck. the course is wast of time.

        www.courtenaysport.co.uk/ For all your tuning needs

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        • #5
          Pretty shocking really

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          • #6
            OK, Its always sad to hear other users problems, you guys are quite good ot me 20% of the time on this forum so would like to keep it that way :wink:

            At the end of the day, and don't take this personally, we are al responsible for our own actions. Whether it was you, me, BO55 VXR or Worsy that was stopped doing 49 in a 40, you were over the limit and there are no defences in law available to speeding. Its not like for example Theft where there is a stautory defence of "a genuine held belief that the other party would consent had they known the circumstances", traffic law is black and white and once broken, is broken. Thats why police get called to calls involving criminal law, and yet pro-activley enforce traffic law. In no other parts of law can an officer almost convict you on the spot (i.e the ticket cannot be ignored, you will get the points no matter what, unless you choose to challenge it but how can you argue against it?)

            To say that the speed was dangerous for the circumstances is quite strong. You would be in your rights to tactfully enquire, in their opinion (so you know for next time!! :wink: ) to ask why. NEVER argue or seek to demand to see evidence. If you can build a rapport it will benefit you in some way. I can't judge what happened with you as I was not there. Was it damp, was traffic dense, were you driving around a corner, was there any junctions/driveways, were cars waiting to merge, was there any slip roads, any traffic light junctions? Speeing itself is NOT dangerous, it is the combination of speed and being inappropriate for the conditions that makes it dangerous.

            What would I have done? I am not not like most police officers. Traffic, who it sounds like you were stopped by, are notorious for being non discretionary. Enforcing road safety is their aim and by letting people off they will not acheive their targets both in terms of figures and purpose. It is not personal to you, many others would have faced the same fate. I would judge it on 1) The attitude test (are you a boy racer? will you do it again? are you mature? e.t.c. What car do you drive, If your in a VXR doing that speed on a DC with a beemer behind you I would say you are actually quite disciplined. Again, hard to judge without being there.

            It happens to the best of us. I was stopped for going through a red light on my push bike round thw corner from my house the other day (I had 10 mins to get back for Fifth Gear). I was in full uniform bar a jumper over my shirt. Copper got his ticket out and started writing. I was going to take it, he then asked my occupation and let me off. (If I was in a car I would have got the ticket though.)

            Good luck with it, don't bother writing letters, they get hundreds as everyone think their case is unique.

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            • #7
              Thanks for your reply PD. Well I am 18 and drive a Corsa b 1.6 sport, I have some alloys and clear rear lights but that's as far as it goes, I think you are right in that they considered me a boy racer. Oh that reminds me, why was I asked for my occupation, I was being polite and playing along, I wanted to question it at the time but didn't since I didn't want to seem cocky or argue with him, but I don't see how that's my occupation's relevant? The only thing I was putting in danger was the midgies, it was dry, there was no junctions, slip roads etc, no people around or cars except for the officer behind me and there are rails on the sides of the road separating the path, I travel this road every day and the traffic is almost always going at 50-60mph. You say there are no defences, would it be possible for example to fight the case based on the fact that the officer was tailgating or "pushing" me to speed, if this was the case? The letter I wrote wasn't as much fighting the case but more enquiring about why my county's police requires so many high-end unmarked police cars (personally I think that where I live they are a waste of money) and also the fine.

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              • #8
                The occupation is one of the ticky boxes on your FPN(E) (endorsable fixed penalty notice).

                The answer to why the officer thought it was dangerous rest's solely with him I am afraid. There will always be differences of opinion, but these are generally based on fact. I doubt form what you have said it was dangerous, but again I would need to see the circumstances. He may have just been pep talking you, but then again the way we drive and what we see are different to th e norm, he could probably give a reason for his comment if asked. Maybe they had followed you for a time long enough before tugging you to see something else, i.e your interaction with another road user or junction?

                If you felt you were being tailgated or pushed along, then it still does not mean you can speed (otherwise would we not all do it, and then the tailgater speeds up and so we do and they do and before we know it we are all doing 140 yaaaay!!!!) Generally the car will only approach you close when going for the stop, they will argue that they were travelling a safe distance until the point at which they wished to stop you when they adopt a "contact" position. They don't touch you but it is a close follow. Even if they had been close to you for a while, what can you do? What would you do normally? Indicate left beckoning an overtake by them perhaps, slow right down by coming off the gas to beckon an overtake.. e.t.c. Only then if you had done this and the car stayed behind you say to about 20mph, still unidentified as a police car and making no attempt to stop you, would you have "grounds" for an argument of duress of circumstances (i.e quiet road late at night, are you being followed or at risk of attack/carjack e.t.c.). Even then it's your word against theirs and a single officers account of what happened has been enough for a conviction at court. There would have been two of them so it is two against one. Most cops will not abuse their power, we all have a job to do and the ways we carry it out may appear alien but believe me they are tried and tested.

                As for expensive cars? Some of us need them to do out job efficiently. A Ford Focus 1.6 is not going to make much headway with many performance cars that are nicked or those that fail to stop e.t.c.



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                • #9
                  ah well thanks for the info, I was never given any paperwork/fpn, I asked for some sort of carbon copy of the notes he took, but he never gave me anything. I still don't quite understand why my occupation is relevant though? I will probably get asked my dogs name next time

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                  • #10
                    What?

                    If you did not get an FPN then you will receive no points and no fine. Were you summonsed for something then? Now you have really confused me...

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                    • #11
                      All he did was write down my details on what looked like a normal notepad (no forms filled out) oh and he gave me a tiny little leaflet with some details about the speed reduction seminar. Shortly after I got a letter through the door saying I must pay a £60 fine and attend the seminar.

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                      • #12
                        where was this james as a matter of point ?
                        dont look like your getting any points then so thats a result , and pd ur incriminating me as to driving fast me and boss never ( fingers crossed ) lol
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                        stealth no more but beware of the silver lightning GSI with vxr power
                        M.U.F.C.
                        http://www.courtenaysport.co.uk/

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                        • #13
                          Im stumped, never heard of this before. The only means of dealing with speeding is points and fine, and if coupled with dangerous driving or other offences, you would receive a summons to appear before a magistrate.

                          Therefore some other legislation has been used, and you definatly will not get points unless you surrendered your licence to the officer, asked to take the licence to apolice station or have been asked to send it off to the DVLA.

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                          • #14
                            Im finding out for you now, looks like the seminar is in exchange for the points. I will let you know later.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Police_Driver
                              Im finding out for you now, looks like the seminar is in exchange for the points. I will let you know later.
                              most places incl northants let you attend the speed reduction seminar instead of getting the points.you still have to pay the £60.this is only up to a certain speed above the limit ????? iknow of people who have got three points for doing 34 or 35 mph in a 30 zone so be warned ||||||||||||||

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